Slower Gongyo...?

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Permalink Reply by Lotus Flower on March 6, 2008 at 5:37pm

Wowee that was like my nephew says "Super Fast" Gongyo. I've been to meetings where it's been as fast as that and where its painfully slow. I think its all about the individual and what you prefer/can do. There are days when I'm running late- so it goes fast..then days where I know I can take my time with it. Like I posted before- if it goes fast at a meeting..I just jump in wherever I can but I never feel bad about it. The important thing is that is that you do it. At your own pace, your own comfort level. I believe there shouldnt be rules on how fast/ or slow to do it. Either way, you're going to feel the power of it within you.

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Permalink Reply by James Ryan on March 6, 2008 at 7:46pm

lol. That was my "medium" pace. "Super Fast" would really knock your socks off, I guess.

Like I said in a previous post, I think a four minute pace is good. I can live with a 5 minute pace, but it feels slow.

What about the pace of daimoku? Most daimoku charts for achieving a million daimoku are for a 67 daimoku per minute pace. This is very fast - even for me. Most people chant at about 50 daimoku per minute.

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Permalink Reply by Gregory Tate on March 7, 2008 at 5:46pm

Wow. After listening to your gongyo, I certainly understand how it can be challenging for some. And if that's the pace for your private gongyo, fine. When I'm chanting alone, I have a fairly similar pace. However, I do think we have to be very conscious of new members for the reasons others have previously stated. It can be quite discouraging for a new member not to feel included in one of our basic expressions of faith. We learn gongyo not to see how fast we can get it done, but, as President Ikeda says, to "[call] forth and [activate] the infinite power the microcosm inherently possesses."

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Permalink Reply by Therese Burton on March 7, 2008 at 6:59pm

Thank you Greg!! You are right on. New members are not the only ones who may have trouble with a 2 minute plus gongyo. Think of Keiko San our lovely pioneer member in our district do you think she would be able to breathe well enough to do that?? Way over 40 years of practice and no need for radical speed. How fast one chants privately or with a friend is their own business. How fast one leads the weekly Toso or Kosen Rufu Gongyo is important to the entire group. The needs of our members need to be put before our own personal needs when we come together as a group.

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 7, 2008 at 8:26pm

Aloha Gregory!
E Mahalo Nui Loa! Finally! Thank you so much Gregory! Now if only we could get other people to see at the same way...
Malama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by James Ryan on March 7, 2008 at 8:37pm

I was a new member once too. I think new members and guests need to hear and feel the power of a vigourous, rhythmical gongyo. I agree, it's not about how fast, but vigor is important.

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 7, 2008 at 10:42pm

So I've heard a lot of suggestions like, doing a slower Gongyo at meetings and such. Well how about doing a fast Gongyo meeting, or riproaring Gongyo meeting, since it seems more people want to go fast. Riproaring Gongyo Meetings! That sounds like a good idea to me, and we can more regulate the speed of Kofu Gongyo.
Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Malama Pono

(please come to my web site to listen to the new Hawaiian music recently added)
-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 7, 2008 at 8:31pm

Aloha Selly!
I'm not saying that we should put rules on Gongyo. I'm only suggesting that for Kofu Gongyo (Kosen Rufu Gongyo) while all the members are present it should be done at a speed comfortable for all. Like a five-minute Gongyo... I would prefer six or seven, but five minutes is a good medium. And you're absolutely right that you will feel the power of Gongyo fast slow or hyperspeed, I guess there's really no wrong way to Gongyo.
Mama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by Eico on March 13, 2008 at 12:10am

I agree. Feeling the sound and pronouncing correctly are important. I had thought that reciting early without seeing the book was good before. but I am having one word a phrase accurately now. yea, Japanese are the same too I guess.
A lot of Japanese practice Gongyo while seeing the book even if it is possible to chant correctly.
One sound a phrase has a special meaning.

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Permalink Reply by Linda on March 13, 2008 at 12:11am

Church? You must mean Kaikon or Community Center.

We do a very SLOW gongyo for new member meetings so that they can learn how to say each word......like reading it, but still with rythym. In chorus we do a faster gongyo and fast daimoku., which is awesome because we are all in rythym....like singing a song. :o) I love to do it at this pace. Then there are times when I'm in a hurry and do a fast one, but I do usually do this alone. In my meetings, I do it at a medium pace so that everyone can follow, although to a first time guest, it would seem fast becasue it's all very new to them. No matter what pace, it's important to keep in rythym.

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Permalink Reply by Deb on March 13, 2008 at 8:21am

I couldn't agree with you more! I know President Ikeada says to chant like 'galloping horses' but Gongyo should be done so fast that it sounds like goobly gook. I'm with you.

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Permalink Reply by Grady Broyles on March 13, 2008 at 8:54pm

I see there are 2 ways people are coming at it. One is a sense of style. What pleases my ear for example. The other seems to be about the utility of it whether in the context of a center, district meeting, or alone and how it works or doesn't as a practical matter. I really like that. I like that I can - without anyone to tell me i shouldn't - chant like a raving lunatic alone in front of my Gohonzon if the mood takes me. And sometimes certain emotions will push that like anger, anxiety or even excitement and love. And sometimes I can take a slow, perfectly enunciated, stroll through the beautiful sounds like a summer meadow and I get benefit either way! I also love that I really enjoy slow Gongyo with people just learning it. What a wonderful teaching that can dispense with authoritarian adherence to ritual and allow us to see through the superficiality of it right to our Buddha natures.

Have I said today how much I appreciate everyones tremendous effort and honest candor that everyone is putting forth?

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