Slower Gongyo...?

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Permalink Reply by James Ryan on March 5, 2008 at 5:40am

IMHO you should be able - eventually - to jump in on a 3 minute gongyo. My personal recommendation for compromise is 4 minutes. That's 33% faster.

I can live with a 5 minute gongyo. That's what many leaders here do at WP Prayer Meeting.

I live in Indianapolis and have been to the 500 about 25 times, so maybe that race speed is in my genes. :D

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 7, 2008 at 5:45pm

Aloha James, thank you for your addition to my discussion. In doing rip roaring or fast Gongyo I do not have a problem, it's Kofu Gongyo, I see the newer members really struggling and the ones with problems just sit and listen. I believe Gongyo should be done for all not just the majority. Would it kill you to do and eight minute Gongyo, just to slow it down a tad?
I can understand why you guys in Indianapolis my right to speed a little better or faster ;-)!
Malama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 4, 2008 at 8:28pm

Aloha James! Thank you for adding to my discussion! I agree with the you, a lot of the newer members are timid and shy, so maybe not 10 minutes. But slow enough so that every word of Gongyo is pronounced and can be learned from. I've actually been an SGI member for about eight years now going on nine. And I love to do what we used to call Rip Roaring Gongyo only I don't have the same lung capacity that I used to. It's just that we do Kofu Gongyo once a month, once a month we all come together shouldn't we all chant together as well.
Malama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by Audrey on March 21, 2008 at 11:40pm

It's so interesting to note how different the rhythm of diverse places can be. I guess living in Paradise makes one not want to rush things.

I find that slow Gongyo focuses one's attention on pronunciation and concentration on the words always pays off in that the new members feel that they can do Gongyo - that they can at least follow. In my early practice I was told that the ideal rhythm is that of a galloping horse.
Now, would that be a full gallop? I asked. A steady rhythm at moderate speed is best. New members soon get the tune and then the words follow. This takes about two to three months on average. I hope that I was helpful. Audrey

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Permalink Reply by Grady Broyles on March 5, 2008 at 11:13am

It is so cool that there is such a variety of styles for Gongyo for people. Thank you for all of the wonderful insights. Whatever the style that people do Gongyo in, lets all just keep chanting "fighting" Daimoku! My local leaders put a lot of emphasis on new member care. I think a big part of this is taking care to lead Gongyo at meetings, culture centers, and in new members' homes, in such a way that the guests an new members feel the spirit of "many in body, one in mind" and feel like they too can learn to chant like the "old timers." Shakyamuni skillfully used "various parables and smilies" that were appropriate to the level of understanding of those he was speaking to, I try to pace Gongyo with that spirit. What do you think?

In "Attaining Buddhahood in This Lifetime", Nichiren states that "unless one perceives the true nature of one's life, one's practice will become an endless painful austerity." For me this is very important. Of late, my Daimoku has been all about this point. Perceiving the true nature of my life while chanting has transformed the way I chant.

For a while after I joined the SGI, Daimoku and Gongyo were a matter of discipline for me. Making a determination to chant every day for a length of time was my first step. ( My district WD leader suggested the "length of a stick of incense.") That achieved, I was having a hard time transforming my attitude that Gongyo felt like a chore. I tried different speeds of chanting, even different lighting. But Nichiren's strong words, "endless painful austerity" kept coming back to mind. So I chanted to "want to chant." That, and Linda Johnson's article in the January-February Living Buddhism, got me thinking that to "want to chant" I was going to have to take Nichiren's advice and try to perceive the true nature of my life. I suspected that my sense of chanting as chore was rooted in a fundamental disbelief of my personal Buddhahood. Oh, I believed that YOU have a Buddha nature. But that nagging sense of "otherness" I have always felt was actually at the root of not only my chore-like chanting but indeed all my suffering. From that point forward the speed with which (alone) I chant becomes a side-effect of the emotion that I feel when I am connected at that level to my Buddha nature. When chanting feel "mind-numbing," It's then I must try hardest to reconnect my life with nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 6, 2008 at 3:24pm

Your absolutely right Grady! Aloha!
Like you very well stated there are many varieties and styles for doing Gongyo. Which brings me back to the point of slowing down Kofu Gongyo. So many different styles done at once cause confusion. That is why I believe in the regulated Gongyo for Kofu. Also I caught you mentioned to put in a lot of emphasis on new member care. I think we as members and leaders should teach our disciples, by sitting next to the new members at Kofu, making house visits and really taking the position of leadership wholeheartedly. Even teaching the new members to help the newer members, I just had a thought. What if there were two different sections, seating sections at Gongyo. Where the older members, the true veterans, will be seated closer to the butsudon, the leaders to junior members will sit in the middle, with the beginners in the back...

although I am afraid, by creating the section's... that there would be a hierarchy amongst the members, and that's not what we want to create.
I will continue chanting on this subject for a clear answer!
E Mahalo Nui Loa Malama Pono Aloha-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by James Ryan on March 5, 2008 at 5:10pm

Here's a two minute, 48 second version. Let's see if this sound file uploads okay.

Attachments:

• Gongyo 248.wma, 2 MB

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Permalink Reply by Bob Hasegawa on March 6, 2008 at 12:42pm

Hello. www.AmericanGongyo.Org has a Free Daimoku and Gongyo line-by-line tutorial in perfect Japanese (Gongyo is Japanese) pronunciation, rhythm, and tone. You can also download the Gongyo pronunciation guide written in American English. A Spanish numbered written pronunciation guide based on the small Mexican Gongyo book is also available. ( Some versions of the official SGI Spanish Gongyo Book are not written in Spanish but in Romaji.) The tutorial gives each line twice, so you can listen to a line and then repeat it along with Yoriko, a graduate of both Soka High School and Soka University. I made this gongyo tutorial easy, useful and free. With practice you can either learn or eliminate errors in your Daimoku and recitation of the Lotus Sutra. So far 22,000 members have visited the site and 1200 hard copies have been sold at the Las Vegas community center during the past two years. If you like it, tell your friends, please. This is just a free service to people who want to chant correctly. Bob Hasegawa

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 6, 2008 at 3:40pm

Aloha Bob!
E Mahalo Nui Loa! Very helpful thank you! Malama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 6, 2008 at 3:37pm

What's the point??? I can barely understand any of it... why are you in such a rush? Gongyo is supposed to be peaceful..., in what way it does that Gongyo sound peaceful? My heart is racing, I think I need my medication...... okay I feel better ;-) :-)! I mean that might be a good way to get the blood flowing, but I don't see the functionality of that? The rip roaring Gongyo that I remember doing you could still here every syllable. But this two-minute 48 seconds Gongyo version sounds like gibberish..... Try this the next time you do Gongyo: hold the one nostril shut and don't breathe through your mouth instead only through one nostril. Then try to do your fast Gongyo, it will almost be impossible. I think that's the fastest I've heard so far though.
Thanks for adding to my discussion James Ryan! Malama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by James Ryan on March 6, 2008 at 4:55pm

Wow, I gotta disagree. I hear every syllable. I'm not in a rush, but yes, it gets the blood going, makes me determined and focused. Slow gongyo is MORE demanding physically to me.

I'd love to hear some more opinions.

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Permalink Reply by Therese Burton on March 6, 2008 at 5:18pm

I would like to share my experience with you, I was having strange "attacks" when I was participating in Saturday morning Tosos I thought they were Hypoglycemic events combined with asthma since I have both of those medical challenges. I was wrong. What was happening was seizures triggered by the speed of Daimoku. My neurologist verified that chanting at a very fast pace can trigger seizures. Even on medication when Daimoku and Gongyo go at the speed in this audio clip I have to leave the room and go to a quiet place to prevent the onset of a seizure.
We should all just follow the current guidance from our seniors in faith, to promote unity within our organization.

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