Slower Gongyo...?

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Permalink Reply by Grady Broyles on February 27, 2008 at 12:57pm

I'm certainly no authority on it. But on a really personal level, I have always gotten guidance that the most important thing, our primary practice, is the chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. The reciting of the Sutra is the supplementary practice. We can manifest Buddhahood in our lives just chanting the Daimoku. With that in mind, I try and chant as much Daimoku as possible before and during Gongyo. The recitation of the Sutra for me, when I'm alone before my Gohonzon, tends to be at a pace that most would probably describe as fast. But it depends on several factors. Like whether or not my time for Gongyo is limited, my physical state (refreshed or fatigued), and even what I'm chanting about.

When I was first learning Gongyo in 1992, the "Liturgy" booklet was quite different. It took literally at least 45 minutes in the morning and 20-30 minutes in the evening. Not including Daimoku. Back then (right at the end of the priesthood issue) the practice of Gongyo was dominated by the recitation of the Sutra. For me, that didn't jibe with Nichiren's pronouncement that the Daimoku is primary and the recitation supplementary. That setup tended to generate some pressure to do it fast. For a time, I was out of the organization until I returned almost 3 years ago. I was delighted (to put it mildly) to see that the ritual of Gongyo for members of the SGI had been brought more in to accord with what I understood to be the Great Sage, Nichiren's true intent. Part "B" was removed (20 pages) and the number of times it was done was brought down to one. This put the focus back on one's personal relationship with the Gohonzon and the primary practice of chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

Back then, I had this personal pet peeve about the fact that when reciting the Sutra, my eyes were on a book and not the Gohonzon. This inspired me to try and memorize it. Interestingly, the pace at which I recited the Sutra at home increased the most after I was able to do it from memory. I really like being able to look my Gohonzon "right in the eye" while I'm reciting the Sutra.

I agree that the pace of Gongyo with districts and at culture centers really should be at a pace that encompasses both the proper energy (galloping horses and the roar of a mighty lion) and the tranquility that Gongyo should bring forth. And care should be taken so that everyone can pronounce every character well. In our district, we do a lot of home visits with new members to help them learn Gongyo in addition to out area-wide slow Gongyo "Introduction to Buddhism" meetings. To help them build their confidence and clarify confusing bits.

I would probably disagree that in order to get real benefit one must correctly pronounce each syllable by chanting at a certain pace. I have several friends who have real difficulty pronouncing the Sutra excerpts (at any pace) and even the Daimoku due to various impediments, and they are most definitely attaining Buddhahood and receiving tremendous benefit. I really believe that, as Nichiren says, it IS the heart that matters most and so the effort made is the great cause for our enlightenment.

Of course it's only the way I see it. One of the best things about Buddhism to me if that we are constantly shedding illusion by finding out we're wrong and furthering our enlightenment by learning.

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on February 28, 2008 at 11:46pm

Aloha Grady!
Thank you for adding to this discussion. You do you make a lot of really good points. This is obviously a topic with a lot of different answers that are all correct or proper. And you make a good point, it is the heart that matters most! After reading your reply, I would definitely like to get to know you.
Malama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by Grady Broyles on February 29, 2008 at 6:48pm

Thankyou! This is a very interesting topic. My friends and mentors here in San Francisco along with our amazing Pioneer members tell me stories about Hawaii and the members there. They tell most one about a huge general meeting attended by President and Mrs. Ikeda with a floating island! Hawaii was the beginning of global Kosen-Rufu! I most definitely want to travel there and meet you and lots of members!

I was told by my district leader an amazing story about how President Ikeda that day was walking across a floating sectioned bridge to the floating island stage thing and there were members in the water holding the thing steady so no one would fall in the water. (Mrs Ikeda's hair is always too fabulous for that to happen! :) ) But they strode across this thing totally confident without ever looking down. Even though the thing wasn't very steady, he had total faith in the efforts of the members who volunteered to hold it.

Maybe I can find members with photos and put some up.

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on February 29, 2008 at 11:20pm

Aloha Grady!
Thank you and I totally agree with you! Kosen Rufu will blossom and spread from the middle of the Pacific to the rest of the world. Hawaii is on its way to becoming a sovereign nation. And I strongly believe that the people of Hawaii can lead the way. For Hawaii is such a huge melting pot....
I would really appreciate to see some photos. Once again thank you for your reply. Looking forward to your input in future discussions.
Malama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by George Nelson on March 2, 2008 at 6:41am

Something should be said here about the current version of Gongyo. I think that fast gongyo is still a remnant of the old days when we were doing five long prayers every morning and 3 at night. In those days you had to do it fast, especially at meetings, a slow gongyo could take over a half hour then. Now it's so short I think we should all slow down at least a little so we can savor this one pass thru these mystic and beautiful words. My life partner absolutely cannot do a fast gongyo and stay in rhythm, so everyday I do a "slower" gongyo with him and while it can be somewhat frutrating as I like a nice clip, I've learned that speed isn't everything. And it still takes us only 5 or six minutes to do the sutra portion of gonyo. The rest is much needed daimoku.

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 2, 2008 at 3:54pm

Aloha George!
Exactly my mind... that's exactly the point I'm trying to get across. Slowed Gongyo can be more enjoyed I'm thinking it should be at least 15 minutes long if not longer. I agree when you say it's so short, no chance to savor. This is what I'm saying, we should slow the process down and and visualize... followed by some much-needed Diamoku! As you put it. Thank you very much for agreeing with me on this topic. Hopefully we can change others' minds as well.
Malama Pono-Aukai

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Permalink Reply by Dan Day on March 10, 2008 at 3:32pm

5 minutes sounds about right to me, I think that is what we usually take at meetings, even if there is a new member who can not keep up (granting that this might violate Therese's good point below about common sense), but we slow way down when we visit a new member. Your point about fast gongyo probably being a remnant of the old days sounds exactly right.
I remember going to YMD meetings after I knew gongyo and being kind of POed at how fast some people went. Nyu wa shichi jiki sha my eye.
Good thread. There is a time and place for "gangsta gongyo" (chuckle) but not at my district's meetings.

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Permalink Reply by Therese Burton on March 3, 2008 at 2:45pm

I know the speed of a galloping horse...I used to have a horse and rode daily. However what I have been hearing at the Center is not galloping horses. It's rapid m-15 machine gun fire gongyo and a friend of mine coined the phrase "Gansta Gongyo " that and "Rocket Fire " . it's so fast even some of our pioneer members cannot keep up. When this happens I will also hear many rythmns. then we are NOT in rythmn with the universe if we cannot be in rythmn with each other. As many others have pointed out we have guests and new members they should be respected and and considered, I'm not saying we need to do slow gongyo but I AM saying lets do gongyo at a reasonable rythmn and pace for meetings. Have you ever noticed that when we watch President Ikeda and they chant, check out the pace it's not Gansta Gongyo!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 4, 2008 at 8:23pm

I like that gangsta Gongyo... did you see see Teresa's reply she called it G4 Gongyo... I really like that term, sounds like fighter planes! What you think?

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Permalink Reply by James Ryan on March 4, 2008 at 6:01pm

Great threads. Personally I like a very vigorous, fast gongyo. I think the current format should take only 3 minutes. I realize this is fast for many others. We tend to do it in 5 minutes at meetings around here. To me, 5 minutes is almost painfully slow. A 10 minute gongyo would drive me crazy!! Unless it was a funeral. Free makes a good point that I should consider older members or those with other challenges. The older WD around here tell me my gongyo makes their teeth fall out! :D

I started in 1983 with the long form. The attitude then, was that guests should hear the fast gongyo at regular meetings to feel the energy. Then do slow gongyos and work up to the pace. Ask your leader to schedule slow gongyo meetings, or home visit you and do gongyo practice.

To all you new members: I was there 25 years ago too. I had to figure out how to jump in and keep with the pace. You can do it too. I highly recommend you volunteer to do fuku-doshi (support on the microphone) if you have a community center. It is a terrific challenge and will help improve our gongyo. When you have 100 people (or more) in the room depending on you to set and keep a good pace, you have a tremendous responsibility. That was my training ground as a YMD 25 years ago.

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Permalink Reply by Therese Burton on March 4, 2008 at 7:31pm

Has anyone heard of Medium Quick Gongyo? We have people at each meeting who are frustrated - those who like to do gongyo in a mind numbing three minutes or a mind numbing 10 minutes. My hubby always says Buddhism is about common sense so lets use some. Keep gongyo fast but not so fast that you lose folks at regular meetings. Lets be aware of everyone, that is the Humanistic way. If you have been chanting for 30 years 25 yrs 15 yrs or one year doesn't matter. We all begin gongyo slowly then more quickly as we learn, no argument there. However folks this isn't the Indy 500. We are not in a race!! When the members can not even hear the words to jump in at or the only word that is intelligible is the last one, there is a PROBLEM!!! Now for those of you who get a rush out of speed we need a new group. We could call it The Gungho 4 Gangsta Gongyo Group. (4-G for short) Meet weekly and speed as fast as you like no one will complain because it will be a gathering of like mined rocket fueled Bodhisattva's racing toward Kosen Rufu with rapid results.

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Permalink Reply by Free Hawaii on March 4, 2008 at 8:21pm

I totally agree! Aloha Therese!
I like that 4-G kind of like G-4 you know like in airplanes and jets and stuff... that's a really really really great idea!
Maybe one of the members will pick up on that idea and make it a reality. Thank you so much for your addition to my discussion that I really appreciate it!
Malama Pono-Aukai

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